goodbye Robert Gabriel Mugabe, nobody will miss you

Too bad the guy replacing him is pretty much the same kind of evil man.

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Once upon a time, this nutcase on television was considered a hero.  No more.

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we don’t delve into the mind of a madman while we help you plan your child’s upcoming birthday party

If you pulled six screaming children and two single supermodels from a burning car tonight while your own clothes were on fire, you’d still be less famous than the twisted scum that murdered more than 60 people yesterday.  This is what he wanted.  He wanted fame.  And yet folks are all about it.  He’s got that fame.  He wins.

Folks are all into getting inside the brain of this piece of filth.  What was his motive?  His reasons?  But if you remember back in 2015 when the psychotic German pilot also committed an act of mass murder via his airplane?  I wrote this.  I stand by every word I said.

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What was his motive?  Who cares.  He was evil.  That’s all that matters.  Fuck him.

But hey, just relax folks.  It’s all good.  You should just relax, because you have no choice.  No matter how you feel about guns or gun control or politics?  Your opinions, desires, etc, are all irrelevant.  You can either hide under a pile of coats or just live your life and hope you don’t get struck by lightening.

No politician or leader anywhere from either dysfunctional political party has any idea how to stop any of this from happening again.

If you are anti-gun:  Well, there are hundreds-of-millions of firearms on America’s streets today.  Even if you ban every gun purchase from tomorrow morning it won’t change anything.  Even the most fervent anti-gun types aren’t preaching confiscation as that’s too extreme.

If you are pro-gun: Well, I guess we are at the point where you need your own personal main battle tank.  For even if you were in Vegas carrying your own slung assault rifle at the concert, you were still out-gunned and out-positioned before the first shot was fired.

It might take half-a-century for America to come to grips with all this gun stuff, one way or the other.  In the meantime, you’re just a potential victim on your stroll through the park on a sunny day.

But hey, we at TAP are here to help.  So we created this handy diagram to help you intellectually plan how your kid’s birthday party should play out.  Please bear with us as we explain in detail how this is going to work:

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1) Family Picnic Area: Where you, your kids, friends, their kids, and other happy people eat a tasty home cooked potluck meal.

2) Emergency Dugout: When the shooting starts, this pre-dug four foot trench will serve as the bailout point for all individuals.  You’ll need to run drills at the start of the party with all participants.  It’s best to get in the face of the kids during these drills to ensure they know you mean business and you can properly simulate the stress and terror they’ll endure once the first person is struck by gunfire.

3) Bathrooms: You’ll need more than one bathroom, because all those kiddies will need lots of relief time after drinking that tasty sugary party punch.

4) Sandbag Bunker Sentries: You need to make friends with some folks who are heavily armed in their own right.  Become friends with cops, current or former military members, or former unemployed African mercenaries.  If you can’t become friends, you can hire a moonlight off duty police officer.  They set up shop in overwatch behind the sandbags and are thus in a position to immediately return sustained and disciplined fire against any threat.

5) Face Painting Booth: The little ones sure do love the colors and designs that expert painters apply to their faces.  I’m told boys want to be Groot and the girls a happy butterfly.

6) Counter Sniper Position: As we’ve seen demonstrated in Vegas and the south of France, the nutcases and terrorists are becoming ever more sophisticated in their attack methods.  Not even solid Bunker Sentry positions are enough to protect you.  You’ll also need to hire a trained sniper wielding a large frame rifle capable of disabling shooters at extreme distances, or disabling vehicles up to the size of a small delivery van or truck that’s being used to run over people en masse.

7) Baby Animal Petting Zoo: Nothing says fun like petting a baby lemur that’s half asleep.  Oh man, look at how closed the baby lemur’s eyes are.  He’s barely half awake even when you pet him.  Cute little dude.

8) Prepositioned Mass Casualty Aid Station: Let’s face it, even the best of well laid wartime plans go wrong.  You could have your fighting positions manned by Rambo and John McClain, but casualties are still going to occur.  So you’ll need an aid station on site that can treat the wounded while the police take 27 minutes to clear the shooter(s) and the medevac helicopter(s) can arrive.  It’s best to man this point with an experienced mass trauma surgeon.  Again, make friends with one if you can to keep your costs down.  Otherwise hire one off duty on a moonlight gig.

9) Clown Show: [insert joke here]

Enjoy the party!

when heroes turn to evil

In these very strange times it’s helpful to listen to some words from history:

The wrongs of the past must now stand forgiven and forgotten. If ever we look to the past, let us do so for the lesson the past has taught us, namely that oppression and racism are inequalities that must never find scope in our political and social system. It could never be a correct justification that just because the whites oppressed us yesterday when they had power, the blacks must oppress them today because they have power. An evil remains an evil whether practised by white against black or black against white.

And who was the wise and just man that said this? Robert Mugabe, as in the guy who utterly destroyed and ruined an entire country to feed his desires for expensive wines, prostitutes, and fine cheese.

Believe it or not once upon a time Planetary-Stormtrooper-Goons such as the Castros or Mugabe were considered, and in some cases actually were, real heroes. They said and did many of the right things. They battled evil dictatorships, helped the poor, at least gave lip service to democratic principles, and so on.

Well that sure didn’t last. If you built a top ten list of history’s great monsters of the last century you could make a fair argument that Mugabe and Castro need their faces in the queue. These men who freed millions, provided hope to an entire country, and were recognized worldwide as potential icons of freedom ultimately turned to darkness, straight evil, perhaps even far more evil than the one they replaced.

 

This is sadly a theme you see all throughout history with revolutions and rebellions. But, still: What the hell happened?

Was it because folks like Castro and Mugabe were always evil from the start, or that they only became evil after they gained absolute power? I’m inclined to think it’s a little bit of both.

And so now enters upon this very troubled stage Aung San Suu Kyi who for all the political confusion, essentially holds political power in Myanmar. Once the darling of freedom and democracy throughout the globe Aung San Suu Kyi has seen her reputation and reality destroyed almost overnight as she’s presided over one of the more stark and brutal genocide campaigns in modern history.

For the uninitiated (or those focused on Dancing With The Stars or what Taylor Swift had for lunch yesterday) here’s what’s been going on:

– In Burma, about 1% of the population is Rohingya Muslim who live mostly on the northwest coast next to Bangladesh. This is in contrast to the nearly 2/3 who are Bamar Buddhist, the majority of the population. There are dozens of other minority ethnic groups in Burma beyond the Rohingya. Some parts of the country have essentially been in a state of civil war for five decades.

– After decades of house arrest for pro-democracy efforts, Aung San Suu Kyi is now State Counselor of Burma. She can’t be President because the Army rigged the qualification rules. So her party has a figurehead president, but Aung San Suu Kyi calls the shots. She holds executive power in Myanmar.

– There’s been ethnic turmoil in the west between Rohingya Muslim and Buddhists for decades with the last large scale violence in 2012.

– A few weeks ago Rohingya rebels and/or terrorists (depends on your point of view) struck various police and Army barracks killing about a dozen uniformed personnel. In response the Army did what it does best, it went wild. If you thought the scenes with the Myanmar Army in Rambo IV were part of the movie’s action packed nonsense, I assure you, the Myanmar Army got this reputation for a reason.

– Hundreds-of-thousands have fled to the border of Bangladesh. Untold thousands have been murdered, raped, whole villages razed. It’s humanity at its worst.

I think what essentially happened is at Myanmar Army Headquarters they had this plan on the shelf. It was printed on nice clean official paper and on the front it said “Rohingya Liquidation Campaign”. When the Rohingya rebels conducted their attacks a few weeks ago, Senior General Min Aung Hlaing (a historically known miller of innocent human flesh) opened his desk drawer, took a swig of whiskey from a solid gold flask, said “Thank you very much, assholes,” and took the plan off the shelf and gave it to his goons to execute.

Everything after that has been on autopilot. The Army, assisted by local Buddhist militias, has done what one would expect them to do when ordered to exterminate a whole people. And where is Aung San Suu Kyi? Nowhere.

Apologists will make the argument that it’s not Aung San Suu Kyi’s fault. That the Army is actually calling the shots in Myanmar and she’s unable to stop the violence as she’s a figurehead. This ignores the apparent political power she wielded since the last election and which she’s been widely praised for using. It also doesn’t explain her essential silence and denials that anything remotely approaching genocide is occurring.

Nothing is stopping Aung San Suu Kyi from simply saying the violence has to stop. Instead, she’s made various inexplicable claims such as the Rohingya burned their own villages or are fleeing to Bangladesh at their own initiative.

Any reasonable person can only come to one conclusion. Aung San Suu Kyi supports the Army’s mission, thus genocide. Why? What the hell happened to this women? To me, when you really think about it, it’s actually rather simple:

1) Aung San Suu Kyi spent decades as a dissident and democracy campaigner. But, until recently she never actually held political power. She never ruled or ran anything. Nobody actually had a resume of hers to look at and say, this is who she really is.

2) Since the end of her exile, the restart of politics, and the last election a reputation has emerged that Aung San Suu Kyi runs her political party, the National League for Democracy, in an autocratic and closed manner. She doesn’t tolerate dissent or rivals, party policy is done at her whim behind closed doors, those who speak out are silenced or removed from the party.

3) Aung San Suu Kyi was born into, is, part of the central Bamar Buddhist establishment. Daddy helped found the country before he was assassinated. Daddy also founded the Myanmar Army. This was after Daddy had served in that oh so merciful organization known as the Imperial Japanese Army.

4) It was widely reported in the years leading up to the election that Aung San Suu Kyi could do business with the Army because (among other reasons) she still had an enormous amount of respect for the Army seeing as how Daddy founded the organization. In other words, despite decades of repression against her own person, Aung San Suu Kyi never checked out of the ruling Buddhist establishment.

5) Oh by the way, the majority of her voters are Bamar Buddhist and some of her most blowhard fervent supporters are Buddhist religious militants.

So what we have is a political newcomer, who already has autocratic tendencies, who was raised by a military man with a questionable background and record, who has always been a card carrying member of the establishment. And thus we get the picture of a woman who can very much share the vision of the Army that Myanmar is in fact a Buddhist nation, run by and for the Buddhist majority, with the Army as the cricket bat that enforces and maintains it.

It’s a very, very sad picture. And one that isn’t going to change any time soon. Aung San Suu Kyi is ruined in the international world. She didn’t even attend the United Nations meetings last week, so fearful was she of the criticism she would face. But does she really care? I doubt it.

Myanmar’s generals have been international pariahs for decades. They’re still rich, they’re still in power. And just like Castro or Mugabe, I suspect that a decade or two from now Aung San Suu Kyi will still be around. Disrespected, disgraced, and yet still calling the shots.

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we unveil our diabolical scheme to solve violent protests

The country is apparently in trouble. Or so the news reminds you about every four seconds. It’s all crisis, all the time. Mostly because it’s good for ratings. But if you ask me, the country will be alright. Only about 0.0004% of us are truly unhinged. The rest of us? We seem to get along pretty well.

On any given day I see members of different races amicably chatting on the train, folks say good morning to one another without any irony at all, people provide money to a local proprietor in exchange for goods and services, parents love their kids, dogs and cats can live together, and so on.

But there are these fringe nuts who are trying to ruin it for the rest of us. With their violent protests and otherwise baffling behavior. What gives?

On one side we have these creatures who are self-professed Nazis. Apparently these idiots didn’t bother to read the memo from their German and Japanese counterparts dated May 8th, 1945 and September 2nd, 1945 respectively. How big of a loser do you have to be in life to choose Nazi is your chosen appellation? Fuck these guys. Even scientologists are more reasonable than these freaks.

On the other side we have the anti-fa, or anti-fascists, or Antifa, who theoretically exist to battle the Nazis off America’s streets. Because nothing says you’re not a Nazi than by engaging in behavior that includes beating up unarmed protestors, breaking the glass of private business, setting fires, and putting reporters in the hospital for filming them doing it. These shits don’t know nothing about history or anything, they should be wearing brown shirts instead of black, they’d fit right in.

If you ask me, all these people can be explained in one simple phrase: They all hate America. They all hate the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. They hate everything that makes us happy and great. It’s in their interests to turn us all against each other. And their political minders are just as accountable. It seems the President and about 2/3 of Congress and other local politicians have determined their selfish electoral futures depend on siding with evil.

But we can’t develop a plan to solve the deep seated corruption within America’s two major political parties. That’s impossible. We’re not the Aztec demon god Itzpapalotltotec. Hell, even Itzpapalotltotec wouldn’t want any part of that. You’d be like, “Itzpapalotltotec, we need to fix the Democrats and Republicans, for you see, …” and before you know it Itzpapalotltotec’s scrambling out the room saying he’s lost his keys and needs to go find them.

But we can develop a plan to solve the Nazis and the Antifa. Because it’s far easier to get idiots to do your work for you. And boy oh boy are these evildoers idiots.

Here’s our plan, bear with us, it’s rather involved:

1) We rent the CBS Studio for The Price is Right. By the way, if you’re young and haven’t seen this show, you should watch it at least once. It’s nice to remember an America where the worst thing that could happen to you in a given day was that a conglomerate would hock their poor quality vacuum to you.

2) We rename the show to Your Side is Right.

3) We invite the top 100 leaders from the Nazis and the Antifa. We do not tell them who the other 100 are. We tell them that whoever wins the Showcase Showdown is allowed to appoint the next Governor of their State and their next Senator to Congress.

4) Once we’ve got all 200 of them inside the Studio, we lock the doors. The American Communist Party and the Tea Party will provide security outside the Studio. Any Nazi or Antifa who tries to escape will be shoved back inside by Commies and Tea Party folks armed with American flags. They’ll use the flag halberds to poke them back inside. We also provide an ample beer supply so the Commies and Tea Party have something to do while the show occurs. Hopefully they all drink it, talk to each other, and learn they all aren’t such bad people after all.

5) Our game show announcer is Clint Eastwood. Because he’s a American icon, bitter, and is still rolling strong at 87. This guy is going to die directing a film on set, which is the most epic Clint Eastwood death ever. We get Eastwood into the Your Side is Right announcer’s booth and he’ll call down the contestants. We place the most expensive bottle of bourbon money can buy in there and our producer will remark to Eastwood as he’s seated, “We don’t care if you drink this.” So we’ll get his guttural voice bringing down each contestant with ballads such as, “It’s Darren, yes Darren Winslow, you’re the next pathetic piece of [beep] Nazi [beep] on Your Side is Right! You [beep] filth [beep].”

6) Our host? Acclaimed actor, cage fighter, wine connoisseur, and amateur bridge player Edward Thomas Hardy. As a limey he’s a neutral third party, doesn’t take shit from anybody, and can beat up any one of the Nazi or Antifa losers while also drunk and bored. We also give him a bottle of bourbon on a small table center stage. Hardy gets the contestants up on stage and the Nazi or Antifa guy thinks he’s going to get a chance to win a car. This is a big deal for the dude as he’s always lived with his parents and bikes to his job at the Sizzler. Hardy does the usual host shtick ala Bob Barker where he chats with the contestant before the potential prize is revealed. In his brutal Cockney accent, with his palm uncomfortably firmly gripping the guy’s shoulder, he’s like, “Well, let me be the first to welcome you to Your Side is Right. [polite applause] Yes, yes very exciting. Tell me guy, [beep] [beep] [beep] [beep] you think [beep] [beep] [beep] [beep] when we [beep] [beep] [beep] [beeeeeeeeep]!”

7) As the game show progresses, instead of being able to bid on a car or hot tub or whatever ultimately worthless material possession we instead treat our Nazi and Antifa friends to a bath of irony. Each one is trolled into their own personal hell. When the Nazi guy is on stage he gets to bid on a handwritten Torah or a trumpet once used by Miles Davis. The Antifa dude gets to bid on Hitler memorabilia or a hand-carved wooden plaque detailing the First Amendment. When they try to storm off stage Hardy grabs each by the back of the neck and pulls them back to the set, reminding them of their goal to win the Showcase Showdown to appoint the Governor and Senator, “Look [beep] blighter, you’re here to WIN right, right?”

8) We make sure Eastwood rigs the cards so that an equal number of Nazis and Antifa reach the stage, the Big Wheel, and ultimately the Showcase Showdown.

9) We do everything possible to antagonize emotions on both sides. We make the room real hot and stuffy, we deliberately deny use of the bathrooms and forbid all water and snacks, cell phone signals are jammed so max focus is on stage. Hardy constantly reminds the audience and the contestants of just exactly where they are and what’s at stake. Such throw away comments emerge from his mouth after he sips from his bourbon:

“Well I know who’s going to get to [beep] determine the future of this country.”

“One of you all owns the streets. Not sure whom. But I’d sure love to [beep] find out.”

“I love a good show. Don’t all you [beep] love one too? But to me, the greatest show of all, is who gets to rewrite history. You [beep].”

10) By the time the Showcase Showdown occurs we’ll have the place seething with rage and hate. There will literally be condensation of darkness dripping down the walls. Everybody’s exhausted and shouting. As the Showcase Showdown product displays play out, and all of sudden Hardy’s gone. He’s not there on stage anymore. Eastwood’s gone too. These 200 freaks are all alone.

11) Did we mention that upon entry we did not make use of the metal detectors? Whatever these 200 people were carrying when they walked in, they’re still carrying. Eastwood’s voice comes out through the speakers in a recorded announcement, “The winner of the Showcase Showdown and the chance to appoint the Governor and Senator is the last one out the door. Have fun. [beep]”

12) Several hours (or days, either way works for us) later only one man will leave the Studio. The Communists and Tea Party will be dismissed. The Studio will be burned to the ground. Eastwood and Hardy will escort our winner into a nondescript black van. He will never been seen again. America will thus be improved.

13) We need your support! We need money to make this idea happen. Tom Hardy doesn’t work for free. We have to pay CBS for the Studio. The Nazis and Antifa need paid travel expenses because most of them are unemployed. Etc.

Please kindly submit your donation to:

The Arcturus Project – Your Side is Right

C/O Nigerian National Petroleum Corporation

1794 Aguiyi Ironsi Street

Abuja 900001, Nigeria

Your cooperation, as always, is greatly appreciated. Only via your financial help can we improve America. Either that, or you can hold the door open for a total stranger sometime today, and smile at them. Either way.

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Let’s begin!  Spin the wheel!

we ask the most charismatic quarterback of all time for his opinion on the issues of the day

TAP: “Smokin’ Jay, what’s your take on Trump, whether player x, y, or z has sat, knelt, or bent during the national anthem, whether vegemite is fit for human consumption, the current internal body temperature of Colin Kaepernick, elves, the latest on how NFL players are the only humans to ever get concussions, Kardashians, or Roger Goodell’s love of fine wine and cheese?”

Smokin’ Jay: “DOOONNN’T CAAARE!”

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lawmakers reach bipartisan agreement to reform health care

Lawmakers announced in a remarkable joint statement from the steps of the Capitol that an agreement was reached to reform the nation’s health care system. A prepared statement read by both Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Kentucky) and

Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer (D-New York) presented the initial details of a bill which would significantly alter the Affordable Care Act, otherwise known as Obamacare.

House Speaker Paul Ryan (R-Wisconsin) and House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-California) joined their Senate counterparts but did not address reporters until after the initial briefing. “It was a tough negotiation, neither of us really got what we wanted,” said Ryan, “but I’m confident we’ve arrived at the best possible solution for the country.” Exact details and the bill’s specifics will be released later this week.

Narrating several critical all night discussions deep within the Congressional offices, Pelosi outlined a bitter but ultimately productive process. “It got pretty heated in there, sometimes we weren’t sure if we’d pull it off. But I’m pleased we stuck with it. This bill will help Americans.” Pelosi was also pleased that the new so called ‘American Health Care Bill’ meant the Republican leadership would pull back their bill to repeal Obamacare.

From the White House, President Donald Trump released several Twitter statements expressing his praise for the joint effort:

“So glad those folks got it done! #fullofwin”

“Democrats wrote Obamacare alone, shoved it through. Republicans wrote their repeal alone, tried to shove it through. No more!”

“This is a big fucking deal. #America”

The gravity of the issue at hand is said to have compelled Senate and House leadership to carefully craft a series of key working groups that ultimately lead to the compromise. “We felt that with a topic that impacts 20 percent of the American economy, and literally effects the beating hearts of 300 million Americans that we needed to do it right, and do it right now,” said McConnell, clapping Schumer on the shoulder, “this guy and I are getting wrecked off the same whiskey bottle tonight.”

Visiting Washington DC with his family, Milwaukee native Paul Martinez expressed surprised delight, “This is why we brought the kids to DC, to see how special democracy is. We had no idea this would happen today though,” chuckled Martinez. “Totally,” stated his wife Nicole, “we were just hanging out by the Reflecting Pool and my sister texted me that we had to see this speech. We loved it! This is why we elect them to serve us out here.”

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ordinary average German citizen attains bestseller status

Can book royalties cross over to the next realm and enrich a person within Valhalla? If so, I’m not sure how this would play out. First off, I assume (I hope) that Hitler’s purpose in Valhalla is for archery practice. When he showed up on 01 May 1945 I figure the Jarls took one look at him and were like, “Ah, welcome friend, we’ve been expecting you for some time.” And Hitler smiles all sheepishly, hoping these weird next life dudes don’t really know who he is. But then four drunk thugs step up and grab him and he realizes he’s done. At this point he starts to whine like a little chipmunk, “Nein. Nein!”. They take him to the range and strap him to a post. Every day drunk thugs practice their bow skills on Hitler. He’s doomed for an eternity to die, be reborn, and die again each day. So if book royalty checks do show up, they’d probably just take the money and buy more mead with it. Hitler never sees a mark.

For those who were unaware, the copyright held by Bavaria on Mein Kampf expired last year. So folks could publish the book again. There was serious discussion about passing a law or twisting it to prohibit further publication of the book. Thankfully this didn’t happen and the book’s on the street again. To me, history should be in people’s faces. So I’m glad they let it publish again. Let Hitler’s book sit in open view. Folks should read it (somewhat) and learn. History can’t benefit humanity when we sweep it under the rug. There are important lessons to be learned. In the case of Mein Kampf, one of the most clear is that men generally tend to mean what they say repeatedly.

Regular readers of this degenerate blog know I sure do hate the mass destruction wielded upon people by the haters for even the most minor of perceived slights. But trends become trends over time. When Sultan Erdogan said over a decade ago, “Democracy is like a train, you get off once you have reached your destination,” it would appear he meant every bit of it. There is nothing Hitler put out post 1933 that he didn’t originally write down in Mein Kampf. His distain of and future overthrow of parliamentary democracy, his intent to lay waste to Russia and the Slavs, his hatred of the Jews, it’s all in there.

For example, take these very specific passages:

“…the nationalization of our masses will succeed only when, aside from all the positive struggle for the soul of our people, their international poisoners are exterminated…”

“If at the beginning of the war and during the war twelve or fifteen thousand of these Hebrew corrupters of the nation had been subjected to poison gas…”

Not much subtlety there. Hmm, I wonder what he hand in mind? It’s important to remember that at the time Germany was (and still is) a pinnacle of modern culture and technology. Germans were not dumb people. So in my mind a few things happened here:

1) They didn’t read his book

2) They read his book and didn’t think he was serious

3) They figured he wrote the book in 1926, and it’s 1933, so he’s hopefully a changed man

4) They didn’t care one way or the other, they wanted a winner to restore Germany from the gutter

All of these views were mistakes. And thus, we eventually get Hitler’s, “You, gentlemen, are no longer needed…”. And the journey was on from that point. It took twelve years to resolve the forces of that conflict. The roots of it began well before Hitler published his book, and in many ways he was just a catalyst. But also in many ways he was an extremely unique and powerful man. One wonders what would have happened to Germany and Europe had history’s fate not cursed the landscape with somebody so evil, so perverted, and yet so talented in the ways of organization and persuasive leadership.

* Because tis the inauguration season, and I hate all humanity, I’ll just throw out the caveat that nothing I’ve written above is meant to apply to Trump. That’s an entirely different situation. History has many of the same notes, but it’s a different sheet of music. Maybe I’ll write more about this later, but suffice to say, America has a far more mature and robust constitutional system than post World War One Germany, a country that had only experimented with democracy for about a decade before Hitler tore it down.

There’s a lot of the purging of history lately. A lot of smart people didn’t want Mein Kampf republished. Folks want to take former slave owners statues off the American street. I’m sure eventually somebody’s going to get around to fully censoring entire books from the school system because they offend four or five folks down by the Sizzler.

But to me, I applaud that Mein Kampf is out there. I’m glad it’s a bestseller. I want all humanity to read, learn, and remember history’s lessons. I want a former slave owner governor’s statue to sit right there. So that when a young kid asks his Dad who that statue guy is, the Dad can be like, “Well, he used to be the governor, he did some neat things, but he also owned slaves and didn’t free them so he was an asshole.” And then the son and Dad have a further good discussion about history.